Network Working Group A. Westine
Request for Comments: 1211 J. Postel
ISI
March 1991
Problems with the Maintenance of Large Mailing Lists
Status of this Memo
This RFC discusses problems with maintaining large mailing lists,
especially the processing of error reports. This memo provides
information for the Internet community. It does not specify an
Internet standard. Distribution of this memo is unlimited.
Table of Contents
1. Introduction.............................................. 1
2. Discussion................................................ 1
3. Typical Problems.......................................... 3
3.1. Misdirected Error Reports................................. 3
3.2. Sublists.................................................. 3
3.3. Misdirected Requests...................................... 5
3.4. Misdirected Messages...................................... 5
4. Summary................................................... 5
APPENDIX A - I used to be on the List.......................... 6
APPENDIX B - Changing Addresses and Sublists................... 8
APPENDIX C - Sublists and Other Protocol Worlds................ 9
APPENDIX D - Errors from Hidden Hosts.......................... 10
APPENDIX E - No Postmaster..................................... 12
APPENDIX F - Examples of Error Messages........................ 14
5. Security Considerations................................... 53
6. Authors' Addresses........................................ 54
1. Introduction
Maintaining large mailing lists, especially the processing of error
reports, poses many problems. Most of the examples come from the
experience of managing the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
mailing list. Many examples are presented in this memo. Most of the
specific problems shown have already been corrected.
2. Discussion
At USC - Information Sciences Institute (ISI) we maintain mailing
lists for the Internet Research Groups, the IETF, and other Internet
groups; about 25 lists altogether. We receive about 400 messages a
month requesting additions or deletions to these lists. There are
Westine & Postel [Page 1]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
about 20 messages a day requesting changes to the lists.
We also receive about 300 error messages a month due to mail delivery
problems. Many of these are duplicates, but the net result is that
about 10 cases per day need to be investigated.
Many of the error reports are for "soft errors", primarily delayed
delivery notices, such as "not delivered for 2 days, will try for 3
more days". These just waste the list maintainer's time and are
otherwise ignored. This is especially wasteful when such messages
are repeated every day. However, if the same host is a cause of such
messages for many days in a row, the list maintainer may investigate.
Please note that ignoring the soft errors is not always easy, since
error messages often contain error reports on several mailboxes,
requiring the error message to be read carefully to pick out the hard
errors.
The error reports that indicate hard errors, such as "no such user"
require the list maintainer to take action. In many cases the
appropriate action is to simply delete the user mailbox from the
list. However, if the mailbox in question is someone known to be
active as a working group chair, or such, further investigation is
necessary. The more general case of "no such host" may be a
temporary condition, but if it continues for several days it must be
investigated.
Since the error conditions do not have standardized names (for
example, "no such user" vs. "user unknown") it is sometimes difficult
to understand whether a soft or hard error is being reported, and
what one should do about it. For example, what does "Can't Find Mail
Center!" mean, or what should one do about "mailll:%MAIL-E-OPENOUT,
error opening SYS$USER2:[STGEORGE.LONGMAIL]MAIL$00040093BE236612.MAI;
as outputI)"?
The first step in investigating a problem with a user mailbox is to
see if it is on the list. If so, the next step is to see if there
really is a problem with it. This is done by using the SMTP VRFY and
EXPN features, Finger, or Whois. This often develops information
suggesting that the user has recently changed his address. This has
to be confirmed through an exchange of messages (with the postmaster)
and then the mailing list must be updated.
If the user is not on the list, then it is likely the mail is sent
via an exploder or sublist. So the investigation focuses on finding
which exploder may be involved, usually this is found by looking at
the path (from the received lines) of the error report. The exploder
that is the source of the error can sometimes be checked using the
Westine & Postel [Page 2]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
SMTP EXPN feature. Then the postmaster is notified.
If the error report is about a host being unknown, the programs
"whathost", "dig", "ping", and "traceroute" may be used to find the
problem. However, getting the problem fixed may require
communication with host and domain administrators.
What to do if problems can't be resolved: Delete the offending entry
from the list that may eventually cause the following response: "I
used to be on the ietf list, how come I am not getting the messages
any more?" (See Appendix A.)
3. Typical Problems
In this section we discuss typical and frequent problems that occur
with large mailing lists.
3.1 Misdirected Error Reports
The most frequent problem is that error reports are sent to the
author of the message rather than the list owner. One way this can
happen is when there is trouble with the author's host not connecting
to another host along the route before it reaches ISI where the
mailing list is.
At ISI the SMTP "from" information is added when the message is
distributed to the list so that hosts following the SMTP protocol
will send their error reports to the list owner. However, not all
hosts do this properly.
Another problem is that some machines do not pay attention to the
SMTP information about where to send error reports.
3.2 Sublists
What is a sublist? It is a mailbox with an alias-name that expands
to a mailing-list or group of recipients. There are many sublists on
our mailing lists.
When a user requests that a mailbox be added to a list that looks
like an exploder, the following message is sent:
We ask that all list maintainters of exploder mailboxes (an
alias-name that expands to a mailing-list or group of recipients)
set up some sort of ownership at their site, for their list. What
this means is, is any mailbox on your list is invalid, the error
message will go to you (the list owner), and you can delete that
mailbox from your list.
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RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
An example of an entry in your aliases file would be:
owner-ietf-local: stev@vax.ftp.com,
(or your list maintainer/postmaster)
It appears that few people understand the concept of list ownership,
or they do not set it up correctly. There is ample evidence of
problems in this area.
When investigating "user unknown" messages it is often the case that
the user is not individually listed on our list. The next step is to
check received lines and hunt for an exploder list with a host
similar to the one that the error came from or points to. At that
point we attempt to use SMTP EXPN or VRFY to check that the user is
on a sublist. Since many hosts do not implement EXPN or VRFY, the
result of our check is inconclusive. We then contact the list
maintainer and ask him to delete the invalid mailbox if it is on his
sublist.
Another problem occurs when someone on a sublist wants to change the
name of his mailbox. We look through the main list to make the
correction and if that mailbox is not on the list we check the
received lines and look for clues to determine which host this user
may be on. More than likely it is a sublist. (See Appendix B.)
When the mailbox is in another protocol world (like UUCP or BITNET)
there are often problems with the handling and direction of error
reports. (See Appendix C.)
Sometimes we are unable to find the addresses reported in the error
message on the mailing list in question. In such a case we check the
mailing list for a host name also named in the received lines of a
message in error. If we find a match then we look for an exploder on
that host and expand the sublist there to see if the mailbox in
question is on that sublist. (See Appendix D.)
At the time a sublist is entered into our list we record the name of
the requestor and consider him the sublist owner. As people change
roles or companies this contact sometimes fails, in that case we fall
back to contacting the postmaster. However, not every site has a
"postmaster" mailbox. (See Appendix E.)
Most users send their requests and changes to the IETF-Request
mailbox, when they are on, in fact, a sublist, usually at their own
company. This creates a problem for us trying to determine which
exploder they're on.
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RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
In this case, the request message is forwarded to the sublist owner
so he can make changes to his list. However, sometimes hosts may be
somewhat similar in name (from the same organization, but in a
different department, in a different building, off campus, etc.) and
it's hard to know if this person should really be on that particular
sublist, or listed individually. Occasionally, we examine the main
file to see if there are individual addresses that could be
incorporated in a sublist.
3.3 Misdirected Requests
Some users don't know that mailing lists usually have a "request"
mailbox, so they mistakenly send their requests to the main list.
When this happens, several people will resend the request to the list
maintainer and then want to know if the request was completed.
3.4 Misdirected Messages
There are also messages that go to the request mailbox when they are
intended for the main list. These messages get forwarded to the main
list and a message is sent to the user notifying him of the
correction and the proper way to address his message.
4. Summary
Running a mailing list should be easy, and with small lists it is.
The number of changes and errors are small and infrequent. But when
lists get large and traffic gets heavy, the number of changes and
errors grow to many a day. The level of effort to manage a mailing
list of substantial size and use becomes significant.
An additional problem is the creativity shown by mail program
developers in inventing numerous different error reports. We present
a large sample of such messages in Appendix F. We hope that these
examples will be of help to other mailing list maintainers.
Our experience with maintaining large lists suggests the following:
Users: Please be considerate and try to work problems out locally.
Sublist owners: Please do everything you can to get the error
messages related to your sublist to go to you. Please try to get
users on your system to talk to you about additions and deletions.
Westine & Postel [Page 5]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
APPENDIX A
A.1. Inquiry Message From User Regarding His Mailbox
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 90 03:02:09 PST
From: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2, DTN: 830 4682"
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: dist list
Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
distribution list.
My email address is : bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Thanks
Stewart
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A.2. Message To User - His Mailbox Was Re-added
To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
DTN: 830 4682"
cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re: dist list
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800.
<9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Stewart,
> Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
> distribution. list.
>
> My email address is: bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
I readded you to the list.
--Ann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
A.3. User Name Readded and It Bounced
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is:
%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM
(can't decypher error code)
550 ... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA21747; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:38
Received: from LOCALHOST by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:25 -0800
To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
DTN: 830 4682"
Cc: ietf-request@venera.isi.edu
Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Re: dist list
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800.
<9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Stewart,
> Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
> distribution list.
>
> My email address is
>
> bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
I readded you to the list.
--Ann
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 7]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
APPENDIX B
In this example, the old mailbox "kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM" was to
be deleted and the new mailbox "kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM" was to
be added. However, when checking the mailing list the old address was
not found. Further checking for anything that resembled the hostname
still did not turn up anything. Then checking the full header
information of the sender's message showed that the message came
through UUNET.UU.NET. There is a sublist on UUNET called
"post-ietf@UUNET.UU.NET". By using the SMTP feature EXPN on the
sublist the mailbox was found in the form "ssbell!kent". Finally, a
message was sent to the postmaster at UUNET and asked him to delete
the mailbox.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B.1. Error Report
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 90 14:05:38 -0500
From: kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM (Kent Landfield)
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: E-mail address change
Hello,
I am currently receiving ietf related email at
kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM. I am moving to sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM
as the ssbell system is going away. Could you please change my
address to kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM so that I can stay on the
list ? Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B.2. Message Sent to Postmaster
To: postmaster@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Address -
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 90 13:44:24 PDT
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
Please delete the mailbox ssbell!kent from the "post-ietf" list. I
will add his new address "kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM" directly to
the ietf list. Thanks. Ann
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 8]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
APPENDIX C
Another problem comes up when a sublist happens to be located in another
protocol world such as BITNET or UUCP and that mail is forwarded through
a mail relay. Experience shows that proper implementation of the list
ownership concept is even less likely.
SIGNET is a host in the UUCP world receiving mail forwarded through
the mail relay THINK.COM.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C.1. Error Report
To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 90 23:45:26 -0400
From: uucp@Think.COM
Subject: Warning From uucp
We have been unable to contact machine 'signet' since you
queued your job.
mail signet!ietf-interest (Date 10/04)
Attempts will continue for a few more days.
Sincerely,
early-bird!uucp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C.2. Message Sent to Postmaster
To: postmaster@think.com
Subject: unable to contact machine 'signet'
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 09:42:54 PDT
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
We have a mailbox on the ietf list that gets relayed through your
host THINK.COM. We will have to delete this mailbox if a connection
cannot be corrected. Thanks, Ann
************************************************************************
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RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
APPENDIX D
Sometimes, the addresses reported in error can't be found on the IETF
list. In this example, "GATORCORP" is not on the IETF list. In
checking the received lines there is a host called VITALINK.COM. We
have an exploder on our list at VITALINK called "ietf-
interest@vitalink.com". The program DIG shows that VITALINK.COM MXs to
UUNET.UU.NET. Since VITALINK is not directly on the Internet the EXPN
and VRFY features of SMTP don't apply, the sublist on VITALINK can't be
checked. However, there are enough clues to make an educated guess that
the mailboxes on the host GATORCORP are on the exploder sublist at
VITALINK. In this situation a message was sent to the Postmaster of
VITALINK.COM to ask him to delete the invalid addresses from his
sublist.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
D.1. Error Report
Return-Path: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET
Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id ; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST
Posted-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
Received: from UUNET.UU.NET by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:34 -0800
Received: from vitam6.UUCP by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with UUCP
id AA12926; Wed, 7 Nov 90 17:34:28 -0500
Received: by vitam6.ENG.Vitalink.COM (5.61/1.35)
id AC03235; Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
From: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp,
melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp...Host unknown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 10]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
D.2. Message Sent to Postmaster
To: postmaster@vitalink.com
Cc: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp,
melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp... Host unknown
Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 15:30:24 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
We have an exploder mailbox on the IETF list called
"ietf-interest@vitalink.com". I'm not sure, but I think the
following addresses may be on that list. Please look into this
"host unknown" problem. If these addresses need to be deleted,
please do so.
Thanks,
Ann
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 11]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
APPENDIX E
Every host on the Internet that processes mail is required to have a
"postmaster" mailbox to receive error reports and trouble inquiries.
In this case, the "postmaster" mailbox was not recognized.
E.1. Message Sent to IETF-Request
To: (ietf-request@venera.isi.edu)
From: Caralyn Brown (CBROWN@ENR)
Date: 10 Jan 91 8:24 AM
Subject: please remove me from this list
Please remove me from this list. I'm changing companies and I'd like
to keep the mailbox from getting out of hand. If it's not too much
trouble, could you just send me a confirmation that I was deleted?
Thanks.
caralyn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E.2. Message Sent to Postmaster
To: postmaster@list.prime.com
Cc: CBROWN@enr.prime.com, ietf-request@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Please delete from "ietf@list.prime.com" - Carolyn Brown
Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 09:50:15 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
Please delete Carolyn from your sublist. We do not have her address
listed individually on the main IETF list.
Thanks, Ann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 12]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
E.3. Error Report
From: postmaster-request@List.Prime.COM (List Service version
1.0.x463)
Subject: returned mail
Message-Type: Return
To:
Your mail addressed to "postmaster" could not be processed: There is
no mailing list named "postmaster" at this site.
For help, send to help@List.Prime.COM; to receive an index of
available lists, send to index@List.Prime.COM; to reach a List
Administrator, send to admin@List.Prime.COM.
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 13]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
APPENDIX F - Examples of Error Messages
F.1. Delayed Delivery Notices
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu
Posted-Date: Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800
Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 (USER) Unknown user name in "laird@BBN.COM"
550 laird@BBN.COM... User unknown
451 avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error
avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error
421 dockmaster.ncsc.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
421 va.nkw.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 nsl.dec.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with jove.pa.dec.com
451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input
drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input
451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error
drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error
421 sccgate.scc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with sccgate.scc.com
421 a.isi.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by a.ISI.EDU
421 cs.ucl.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 oasys.dt.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with oasys.dt.navy.mil
421 peocu1.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with PEOCU1.NAVY.MIL
421 enh.nist.gov.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with enh.nist.gov
421 mickey.imsd.contel.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by
MICKEY.IMSD.CONTEL.COM
421 uv4.eglin.af.mil.tcp..Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with uv6.eglin.af.mil
421 ima.isc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with ima.ima.isc.com
421 huachuca-emh8.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by
HUACHUCA-EMH8.ARMY.MIL
421 vaxa.nerc-keyworth.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out
Westine & Postel [Page 14]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
during user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 gdr.bath.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
421 ccint1.rsre.mod.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with ccint1.rsre.mod.uk
550 m_ellison@TOOK.LKG.DEC.COM... Host unknown
421 hqafsc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with HQAFSC-VAX.AF.MIL
421 nic.nordu.net.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with nic.nordu.net
421 aedc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with AEDC-VAX.AF.MIL
421 letterkenn-emh1.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out
during user open with LETTERKENN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL
421 dumle.kommhuset.se.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
user open with sunic.sunet.se
421 cis.uab.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with cisa.CIS.UAB.EDU
421 server.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with server.af.mil
421 issun3.stc.nl.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with issun3.stc.nl
421 cs.uiuc.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu
-------------
************************************************************************
F.2. Failed Mail
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 5:00:40 EST
From: BBN Mail System (MMDF)
Sender: mmdf@BBN.COM
Subject: Failed mail (msg.aa09055)
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
After 12 days (276 hours), your message could not be fully delivered.
It failed to be received by the following address(es):
mfidelma@cc5.bbn.com (host: cc5.bbn.com) (queue: smtp)
Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving
machine. Less often, they are caused by the communication system.
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 15]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.3. Waiting Mail
To: RELAY Mail System (MMDF)
Cc: owner-ietf <@RELAY.CS.NET:owner-ietf@VENERA.ISI.EDU>
Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Waiting mail (msg.aa00720)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 02 Oct 90 07:45:14 -0400.
<9010021201.AA06288@venera.isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:11:03 PDT
From: Ann Westine
> After 5 days (105 hours), your message has not yet been
> fully delivered. Attempts to deliver the message will continue
> for 2 more days. No further action is required by you.
>
> Delivery attempts are still pending for the following address(es):
>
> @zix.gmd.dbp.de:weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de
> (host: zix.gmd.dbp.de)(queue: dfn)
>
> Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving
> machine. Less often, they are caused by the communication system.
************************************************************************
F.4. What Started Out as a Sublist with No Active Users
a. Error Report
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 22:13:12 +0200
From: MAILER-DAEMON@inria.inria.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf
----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to mailhost.Gipsi.FR:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 ... User unknown
----------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 16]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
b. Message Sent to Postmaster
TO: Postmaster@gisi.gipsi.fr
Subject: 550 ... User unknown
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
I have received numerous error messages like this for over a week.
There appears to be a mailbox on your exploder that is invalid,
please delete it.
Thanks, --Ann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c. Reply From Postmaster
From: edmonde@ubu.gipsi.fr (Edmonde Duteurtre)
To: westine
In-Reply-To: Ann Westine's message of Tue,
11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT
<9009111656.AA19730@venera.isi.edu>
Subject: 550 ... User unknown
Hello
On our site, the bind@gipsi.fr, snmp@gipsi.fr, ietf@gipsi.fr and the
nameddroppers@gipsi.fr mailed only one person: prindevi@gipsi.fr but
this person has leaved our company, and you should cancel this
addresses.
I think we get enough informations through the news. I think you
should cancel us (ietf@Gipsi.FR) on the mailing list ietf.
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 17]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.5. Sublists without local ownership
In this error message there was not much to go on except the
words IETF and the name of the host from where the mailer-daemon
sent the error. Using that clue the mailing list was searched for
that host name (SATURN). It was a sublist. It appears that there is
something internally wrong with the sublist and this error should
have gone to the postmaster or owner of the IETF@SATURN.ACC.COM list
instead of the IETF owner. A message was sent to the postmaster. No
reply was received, but the condition was fixed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a. Error Report
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 14:42:57 EDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON%saturn.ACC.COM@salt.acc.com (Mail Delivery
Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 13
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
/p/news/ietf/21770: Permission denied
554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf"... unknown mailer error 13
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
b. Message Sent to Postmaster
To: Postmaster@saturn.acc.com
cc: ietf-request
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: 554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf"
... unknown mailer error 13
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 03 Oct 90 14:42:57 -0400.
<9010031842.AA01601@saturn.acc.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:53:02 PDT
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
Please fix the problem with the following mailbox
"ietf@SATURN.ACC.COM".
Thanks, Ann
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 18]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.6. Repetitive Error Every Couple of Months from Same Host
a. Message Dated August 90
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 09:21:26 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 ... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(sent)
(bounced)
(sent)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
b. Message Dated October 90
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 ... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
(sent)
(sent)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 19]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
c. Message Dated December 90
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 21:40:47 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 ... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
d. Message Dated December 90
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 23:01:21 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 ... 550 Host unknown
(Authoritative answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(sent)
mogul@acetes (sent)
(bounced)
(sent)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 20]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
e. Message Dated January 91
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 91 17:05:53 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "bigfut",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:(can't decypher error
code)
550 ... User unknown
************************************************************************
F.7. Host Unknown or Sublist
The address "lucb-ml@OPUS" is not an Internet style domain name. The
exploder ietf@CS.McGILL.CA has this address on its sublist, and
CSA.McGILL.CA does not recognize this host. (This error should have
gone to the sublist owner at CS.MCGILL.CA).
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 19:45:14 -0400
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 "Luc Boulianne" ... Host unknown
************************************************************************
F.8. "HOST UNKNOWN" and the Host Really Is Known
Usually a "host unknown" report is not acted on unless it is repeated
over a period of several days. In many cases the hosts really do
exist, but they're just down for a couple of days, or there are
network problems reaching it (or it's name serrver).
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 08:45:56 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-los-nettos@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 nrc.com.tcp... 550 Host unknown
550 IHM@NRC.COM... Host unknown
Westine & Postel [Page 21]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHATHOST CHECK
westine 28% whathost nrc.com
Host: nrc.com ==> 129.216.200.51
westine 82% whathost 129.216.200.51
Host: aztec.NRC.COM ==> 129.216.200.51
************************************************************************
F.9. Host Unknown and MXed to Another Host.
DNS says AMES will forward mail for ADAPT, but mailer at AMES says
ADAPT is unknown. Should ask postmaster at AMES to fix either mailer
or DNS data.
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 09:39:35 PST
From: unet!Mailer-Daemon@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
bad system name: ADAPT
uux failed ( 68 )
550 george@ADAPT.NET.COM... Host unknown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
westine 86% dig adapt.net.com any
; <<>> DiG <<>> adapt.net.com any
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr aa rd ra Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2
;; QUESTIONS:
;; adapt.net.com, type = ANY, class = IN
;; ANSWERS:
adapt.net.com IN MX 10 ames.arc.nasa.gov ; 84029
adapt.net.com IN MX 20 tymix.tymnet.com ; 84029
;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
ames.arc.nasa.gov IN A 128.102.18.3 ; 158777
tymix.tymnet.com IN A 131.146.2.1 ; 86400
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 22]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.10. User Unknown
Most "User Unknown" error messages listed individually on the main
list get deleted. Those on a sublist, require a message to the
postmaster or list maintainer. They are asked to delete the
invalid user mailbox from their local list.
************************************************************************
F.10.1. Add User but Address Fails
This is a case where the recipient was checking to see if his mailbox
was already on the list and if not to readd him. He was readded to
the list. A "user unknown" error message was received on the
confirming message that was sent notifying recipient that he had been
added.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a. Message Sent to User And Postmaster
To: postmaster@janus.enet.decl.com, postmaster@decwrl.dec.com
Cc: westine, bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Subject: RE:
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 10:15:40 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Stewart and Postmaster,
I readded your name to the IETF list but there seems to be problems
with connections to DECnet hosts right now. I have seen lots of
errors like this lately. Postmaster, please check into this. JANUS
is not the only host with an error, there are other hosts like this
in trouble.
For example.
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 ... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer
Westine & Postel [Page 23]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
(sent)
(sent)
-------
Thank you, Ann
To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
DTN: 830 4682"
Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: dist list
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 0800.
<9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Stewart,
> Please will you check that I have not been deleted
> from this distribution list.
>
> My email address is > bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
I readded you to the list. Thanks, Ann
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is:
%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM
(can't decypher error code)
550 ... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 24]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
b. Message From Postmaster
Return-path: vixie@wrl.dec.com
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 PST
To: westine@ISI.EDU
cc: postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com,
bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re:
From: Paul A Vixie
Anne,
This was a transient. Please let me know if any other .enet.dec.com
nodes are still unreachable.
Paul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c. Another Message to Postmaster
To: Paul A Vixie
cc: postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com,
bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re:
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 -0800.
<9011080024.AA28353@volition.pa.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 11:23:39 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Paul,
There are a few other error message that I received last week and
they seem to reoccur every couple of months. Here is an example.
What does this error mean?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
Westine & Postel [Page 25]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
554 ... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
(sent)
(sent)
(sent)
(sent)
----------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
d. Message From Postmaster
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 17:10:02 PST
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re:
From: Paul A Vixie
Anne,
This error:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 ... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
answer from name server)
...means that the person on ERLANG:: has forwarded their mail to a
system that ERLANG does not know about. Decnet mail is not store-and-
forward, so decwrl (as smtp-to-decnet gateway) sees the end-system
error. Trying to be helpful, it sends it back to you.
My advice is to delete any addresses you have trouble with, if they are
in the .enet.dec.com subdomain.
paul
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 26]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.10.2. No Such User
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:05 CDT
From: PMDF Mail Server
Subject: Undeliverable mail
To: westine@ISI.EDU
The message could not be delivered to:
Addressee: gale
Reason:
%MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user GALE at node CRCVMS
************************************************************************
F.11. No Transcript
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:21:03 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure
To: owner-ietf
To: owner-ietf
To: westine
--------------
************************************************************************
F.12. Looping - Too Many Hops
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:59 PDT
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem
Subject: Returned mail: Unable to deliver mail
To:<@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,
@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,
@jessica.stanford.edu:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 sendall: too many hops (17 max)
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09128; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:36 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17687; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:31 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0)id AA09124; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:28 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
Westine & Postel [Page 27]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17674; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:22 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09120; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:19 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17658; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:13 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09116; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:11 PDT
Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17645; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:05 PDT
Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
(5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09112; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:03 PDT
Received: from VENERA.ISI.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
(5.59/25-eef) id AA17625;
Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:07:50 PDT
Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:49 -0800
Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800
Received: from NRI.RESTON.VA.US by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800
Received: from nri by NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US id aa13139;7 Nov 90 18:26
To: Frank Kastenholz
Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Re: IETF mailing list
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 18:26:53 -0500
From: vcerf@NRI.Reston.VA.US
************************************************************************
F.13. No Postmaster
a. Error Message
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 18:40:58 EST
From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 28]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
b. Checking Hostname and Address
westine 37% dig osi3.ncsl.nist.gov any
;; QUESTIONS:
;; osi3.ncsl.nist.gov, type = ANY, class = IN
;; ANSWERS:
osi3.ncsl.nist.gov IN A 129.6.48.108 ; 86400
osi3.ncsl.nist.gov IN A 129.6.51.1 ; 86400
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c. Checking For Users
westine 49% mconnect OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV
connecting to host OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV (0x6c300681), port 0x1900
connection open
220 osi3.ncsl.nist.gov sendmail 4.0/NIST(rbj/dougm) ready at
Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:58:49 EST
expn ietf
250-Dale Walters
250-Richard Colella
250 Doug Montgomery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
d. Checking For Administrators
westine 44% whois osi3.ncsl.nist.gov
National Bureau of Standards (ICST-OSI3)
Hostname: OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV
Nicknames: OSI3.ICST.NBS.GOV,ICST-OSI3.ARPA
Address: 129.6.48.108
System: SUN-3/160 running UNIX
Coordinator:
Montgomery, Douglas C. (DCM5) dougm@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV
(301) 975-3630
Record last updated on 17-May-89.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 29]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
e. Message Sent to Coordinator
From westine@venera.isi.edu Thu Nov 8 13:58:40 1990
Posted-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST
To: dougm@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Cc: westine@venera.isi.edu
Subject: RE: 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknown
Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Doug,
If the Postmaster is "unknown" please delete him from your exploder
list "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov". I have been receiving error messages
like this one for several days now. If I don't hear from you, I will
have to delete the above mailbox.
Ann
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
> 550 Postmaster... User unknown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
f. Message From Coordinator
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:34:02 EST
From: Doug Montgomery
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
Sub-Organization: National Computer Systems Laboratory
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: RE: 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknown
Cc: staff@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov
I think I have found out what is wrong. For some reason (we can
discuss this below) your exploder is sending IETF mail to our
exploder (ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov) through the machine
osi.ncsl.nist.gov. Now due to a recent subnet reconfiguration and
subsequent lack of update to our DNS servers, the DNS was returning
an incorrect address for osi3. Thus IETF mail would be sent to OSI,
which would try to forward it to OSI3 (using the wrong address).
OSI would think that OSI3 was down and dump the message, trying to
send a notice to Postmaster. OSI doesn't have an aliase for
Postmaster and thus the second error message that you saw.
Westine & Postel [Page 30]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
These two problems have been fixed on OSI. Now the question is what
address you have in your distribution list that would cause this
mail to go through OSI in the first place. I guess you might have
something like "ietf%osi3@osi.ncsl.nist.gov." The other interesting
point about your list is that we receive IETF mail to our exploder
directly from venera.
Thus I suspect that there are two entries for OSI3 on your
distribution list. One that gets relayed through OSI and one that
points directly to OSI3. If this is the case please deleted
everything except the "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov." address.
If this is not the case or if there are other problems let me know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
g. My Reply Back
Here are all the addresses I have on the IETF list under NIST.GOV.
ietf@OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV,
mills@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV
I'll deleted "mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov".
Here are two others at NIST
hunt@ENH.NIST.GOV,
sting@CAM.NIST.GOV
By the way, on the following message, it looks like the Mailer-Daemon
message went from OSI.ncsl.nist.gov to enh.nist.gov to venera.isi.edu.
--Ann
Westine & Postel [Page 31]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
Return-Path: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Received-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id ; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST
Posted-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
Received: from enh.nist.gov by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:01 -0800
Received: from OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV by ENH.NIST.GOV;
Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:43 EDT
Received: by osi.ncsl.nist.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB14654;
Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Message-Id: <9011082039.AB14654@osi.ncsl.nist.gov>
X-Envelope-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
----- Transcript of session follows -----
421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
550 Postmaster... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
h. Another Problem .Forward
From: Doug Montgomery
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: 421 osi3:Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster.. User unknown
Deleting the mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov entry should fix your problems.
Mills has a .forward to osi3, thus explaining why IETF mail was going
---> OSI ---> OSI3.
I checked OSI's sendmail.cf and it is relaying through enh. This,
though has nothing to do with the previous problem.
I flushed the queue of IETF mail on OSI waiting to go to OSI3. I
don't think you should see anymore bounced messages.
Sorry that our local problems were causing you grief .... let me know
if it happens again.
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 32]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.14. File Over Allocation
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user
open with ames.arc.nasa.gov
Posted-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700
To: owner-ietf
----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> QUIT
<<< 421 sage.acc.com SMTP Service not available:
insufficient disk space.
451 bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read error
bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read error
************************************************************************
F.15. File Deleted
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 14:21:57 EDT
From: Daemon
Subject: Undeliverable mail
To: westine
Mail could not be delivered to the following address(es):
/usr/databases/bugs/vaxmail@ccj.bbn.com: No such file
or directory
************************************************************************
F.16. Strange Postmaster
a. Message Forwarded to IETF-Request
Forwarded: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:09 PST
Forwarded: westine
Forwarded: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org
Forwarded: galvin@TIS.COM
Return-Path: galvin@TIS.COM
Received-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id ; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST
Posted-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:01 -0800
Received: from TIS.COM by TIS.COM (4.1/SUN-5.64DB)
Westine & Postel [Page 33]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
id AA04098; Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:13 EST
Reply-To: James M Galvin
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: Failed Mail to IETF
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
From: James M Galvin
------- Forwarded Message
Message-ID: <9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org>
From: galvin@tis.com
To: Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org
Date: 15 Feb 91 21:28:28
Subject: Can't Find MailCenter!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
b. Problem Reported to MITRE
To: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org
Cc: westine, galvin@TIS.COM
Subject: RE: Can't Find MailCenter!
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:01 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
We're getting this problem again. Please fix.
Thank you.
Ann
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
From: James M Galvin
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: Failed Mail to IETF
------- Forwarded Message
Message-ID: <9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org>
From: galvin@tis.com
To: Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org
Date: 15 Feb 91 21:28:28
Subject: Can't Find MailCenter!
Westine & Postel [Page 34]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
GatorMail-Q Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/
Received: by qmgate; 15 Feb 91 21:28:25
Received: by mbunix.mitre.org (5.57/4.7)
id AA25128; Fri, 15 Feb 91 21:26:46 EST
Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:12 -0800
Posted-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500
Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800
Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800
Message-Id: <9102151645.AA26445@TIS.COM>
Reply-To: James M Galvin
To: Megan Davies
Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu
Subject: Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/ST. LOUIS
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Feb 91 17:44:13 EST.
<9102141744.aa15663@NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US>
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500
From: James M Galvin
************************************************************************
F.17. Message Too Large
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 17:50:10 MDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
To:
----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554
olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu... Message is too large; 50000 bytes max 554
olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu... Service unavailable
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 35]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.18. Vacation Messages
a. Case 1
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 90 15:28:30 PDT
From: David Wasley
Subject: I am away from e-mail
This_Message_Brought_To_You_By: the vacation program
Apparently-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
I am away from e-mail until October 13. If your message requires
immediate attention, please contact one of the people below:
Network problems: Austin Shelton
Network information: Bill Wells
Network installation: Jim Allison If
you're really desparate, leave me voice-mail at (415) 642-3478.
Thanks for your patience! David Wasley, U C Berkeley
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
b. Case 2
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 18:17:12 EST
From: MAILER-DAEMON@dsl.cis.upenn.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: vacation: not found
554 "|vacation farber"... unknown mailer error 1
************************************************************************
F.19. LocaL Configuration Errors
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 90 00:36:51 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@nyu.edu
Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 ,...
Local configuration error
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 36]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.20. Service Unavailable
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:00:39 EDT
From: Mailer-Daemon@omni.eng.clemson.edu
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to eng.clemson.edu:
>>> HELO omni
<<< 553 omni host name configuration error
554 ... Service unavailable
----- Unsent message follows -----
************************************************************************
F.21. "Bad File Number"
To:
From: The UTCS Post Office
Subject: Delivery problems with your mail
Your message has been received by the University of Toronto Computing
Services Postal System. A copy of it has been returned to you because
of difficulties encountered while attempting to deliver your mail.
The following errors occurred while attempting delivery:
:
128.100.102.10: 550 ... User unknown:
Bad file number
************************************************************************
F.22. Cannot Append
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 90 14:51:57 PDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail: /var/spool/mail/cslater: cannot append
Mail saved in dead.letter
554 cslater... Service unavailable
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 37]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.23. Error Creating Network Link
"erlang::chang... Host unknown"
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 12:34:20 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred
To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
%MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
-SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
554 ... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from
name server)
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Node unreachable
(temporary failure)
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
(queued, will retry)
(sent)
----- Unsent message follows -----
************************************************************************
F.24. Not a Typewriter
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 19:36:47 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To: owner-ietf
----- Transcript of session follows -----
get_status: Not a typewriter
(mail11 operating system error)
451 ... Operating system error
mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
(permanent failure)
554 ... 550 Host unknown
(Authoritative answer from name server)
Westine & Postel [Page 38]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
(bounced)
----- Unsent message follows -----
************************************************************************
F.25. "MTA Congestion"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 22:37:48 -0700
To: ietf-request
From: DFN Gateway
Subject: DFN Mail Network -- failed mail
Mail Failure Diagnostics:
Message Recipients:
weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de: MTA congestion
************************************************************************
F.26. Local Forwarding Not Working
To: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
Subject: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi,
Would you mind checking into this error message before I delete this
person from our list. I think it may be an internal forwarding
problem at MIT. If not let me know if there is a new address or if I
should delete this one.
--Ann
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 12:34:01 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
To: owner-dartnet@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Westine & Postel [Page 39]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 /u/dukach/.forward:
line 0: tabasco.lcs.mit.edu... User unknown
550 dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Cc: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 -0800.
<9011012120.AA19211@venera.isi.edu>
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 17:16:44 -0500
From: jrd@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
Ann,
Please don't delete Semyon. I'll get him to fix his
configuration.
Thanks,
Chuck
************************************************************************
F.27. No Such File or Directory
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 17:57:08 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@quake.stanford.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
<<< RCPT To:
<<< RCPT To:
<<< DATA
mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/phil -: No such file or directory
mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/rick -: No such file or directory
Mail saved in dead.letter
554 ,... unknown
mailer error
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 40]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.28. User Account Terminated
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:21:23 EDT
From: MAILER-DAEMON@theory.TN.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to DEVVAX.TN.CORNELL.EDU:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu... User unknown
************************************************************************
F.29. Machine Terminated
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 19:33:26 EDT
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
To:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 edn-unix.dca.mil.tcp... 550 Host unknown
550 jsl@edn-unix.dca.mil... Host unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
************************************************************************
F.30. Couldn't Make Final Delivery.
a. Case 1
Date: 29 Aug 90 13:17:34 EST
From: "SMTP MAILER"
Subject: Mail Delivery Problem
To: "owner-ietf"
----Reason for mail failure follows----
Sending mail to recipient(s) Nakassis :
Couldn't make final delivery.
%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening USER2:[000000]NAKASSIS.DIR as output
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 41]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
b. Case 2
Date: 8 Oct 90 20:24:32 EDT
From: "SMTP MAILER"
Subject: Mail Delivery Problem
To: "owner-ietf"
----Reason for mail failure follows----
Sending mail to recipient(s) morrisd :
Couldn't make final delivery.
%MRGATE-E-MRFROMVMS, Error transferring message to Message Router
************************************************************************
F.31. Unknown ".ARPA" Hosts Without Updated Hostname
WHATHOST and DIG show nothing for DCA-EMS.ARPA. There is no referral
to the new hostname. "WHOIS" DCA-EMS came up with the new hostname.
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure
Posted-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 15:59:34 -0800
To: owner-internet-research-group@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Coviello@DCA-EMS.ARPA,Elliott@DCA-EMS.ARPA,
Hingorani@DCA-EMS.ARPA... Host unknown
westine 45% whathost dca-ems.arpa
Unknown Host: dca-ems.arpa, errno 0, h_errno 1 : Unknown host
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 42]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
westine 44% whois dca-ems
Defense Communications Agency (DCA) (DCA-EMS)
Office Automation Division
Code H610
Washington, DC 20305-2000
Hostname: DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL
Address: 26.1.0.76
System: BBN-C/70 running UNIX
Host Administrator:
Wilkinson, Avis D. (ADW) AWilkins@DDN-CONUS.DDN.MIL
(703) 848-4867
DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL users send E-Mail to AWilkins@DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL
Record last updated on 10-Sep-90.
************************************************************************
F.32. Messages From an Internet Relay to Commercial Mail Systems
a. Message Too Large
Date: 13 Feb 91 04:15:22 EST
From: Electronic Postmaster
To: Ann Westine
Subject: Undeliverable message
Re: ? EMDITB - Mail Delivery Failure. Message too large.
>EPX [74360,3202]
Internet Monthly Report
Your message could not be delivered as addressed.
--- Returned message ---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 43]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
b. Invalid Parameters
Date: 13 Feb 91 05:34 UT
From: "X.400 Gateway"
Subject: MHS NonDelivery Report
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Report from domain /PRMD=/ADMD=telemail/C=us/:
FAILED delivery to:
1 Recipient ORName:
/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/
Translates to:
/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US
/@sprint.com
Reason: unable to transfer
Diagnostic: invalid parameters
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
c. Looping
From: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for
Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu
Message-Type: Delivery Report
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000
Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi...
This report relates to your message: Why WAN multi...
of Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000
Your message was not delivered to
Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu for the following reason:
Message looping detected (please contact local administrator)
*** The following information is directed towards the local
*** administrator and is not intended for the end user
*
* DR generated by mta pilot.cs.wisc.edu
* in /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/
* at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:35 +0000
*
* Converted to RFC 822 at pilot.cs.wisc.edu
* at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000
*
Westine & Postel [Page 44]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
* Delivery Report Contents:
*
* Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=xnren/ADMD=
/C=us/;<9012121704.AA08993@decpa.pa.dec]
* Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi...
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:47 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:21:48 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:55 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:46 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:57 +0000 action Relayed
* Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
* arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000 action Relayed
* Recipient-Info: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu,
* /G=Allan/S=Cargille/OU=cs/O=uw-madison/PRMD=xnren/ADMD=
* /C=us/;
* FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1);
* diagnostic Loop-Detected (3);
* last trace () Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000;
****** End of administration information
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 45]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.33. Incomplete DNS Data on Host
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 90 19:37:51 -0500
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 megasys.com (TCP)... 550 Host unknown
550 ... Host unknown (Valid name but no data
[address])
westine 27% dig megasys.com any
; <<>> DiG <<>> megasys.com any
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6
;; flags: qr rd ra Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 2, Addit: 3
;; QUESTIONS:
;; megasys.com, type = ANY, class = IN
;; ANSWERS:
megasys.com IN NS UUNET.UU.NET ; 172786
megasys.com IN NS seismo.CSS.GOV ; 172786
;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
MEGASYS.COM IN NS UUNET.UU.NET ; 172786
MEGASYS.COM IN NS seismo.CSS.GOV ; 172786
;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
UUNET.UU.NET IN A 192.48.96.2 ; 447968
UUNET.UU.NET IN A 137.39.1.2 ; 170920
seismo.CSS.GOV IN A 192.12.141.25 ; 172786
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 46]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.34. Sublist Problem
From: fischer@math.ufl.edu
Posted-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
Received: from gimme.math.ufl.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Mon, 17 Dec 90 09:28:24 -0800
Received: by gimme.math.ufl.edu (4.1/4.03)
id AA05948; Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU
Subject: here we go again: please release me, let me go...
Fifth time now(?) I try this every couple of months now,
figuring you may be hoplesslly backed up.
Can you remove me from the ietf list? I may be there as
either:
fischer@math.ufl.edu
or
netadm@math.ufl.edu
I would appreciate a confirmation message: I'm ready to use
crontab for these mailings.
Many Thanks,
Randy Fischer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To: fischer@math.ufl.edu
cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re: here we go again: please release me, let me go...
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 -0500.
<9012171728.AA05948@gimme.math.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 10:15:36 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Randy,
I remember your request, and I also remember telling you that you are
not on our list (at least individually). There is an exploder
"netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU" maintained at UFL.EDU. You need to check with
the postmaster to see if you are on their list. If this is not the
case, here are the only other addresses I have from UFL.EDU
Westine & Postel [Page 47]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
ceben@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
esj@UFL.EDU,
FCLA@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU,
POKE@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
There is another possibility, perhaps you have a pointer to a mailbox
somewhere else?
Regards,
Ann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Operator
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: re: done at last: please release me, let me go...
Many, many thanks for the reply: I did not, somehow, see your
previous reply -- perhaps you forwarded it to someone at UFL.EDU
instead of MATH.UFL.EDU? Or I missed it in the flow of mail I am
trying to abate.
No matter.
At any rate "netadm@math.ufl.edu" is indeed a local exploder, aliased
at the moment to myself and one of my assistants. It is local to the
"math.ufl.edu" subdomain, and not to "ufl.edu" as your records
indicate. I am the postmaster of the "math.ufl.edu", and you should
be able to verify "math.ufl.edu" has an MX record pointing to
"mathlab.math.ufl.edu". I am therefore mailing to you as root from
that machine.
Please remove "netadm@math.ufl.edu" from your list. I have quite
enjoyed the discussions, but the volume been overwhelming.
Thanks very much for your prompt reply,
Appreciatively,
-Randy Fischer
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 48]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.35. File Protection Problem
From: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642
09-Feb-1991 0904"
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
Subject: Request to add to IETF
I seem to have suddenly dropped off the IETF distribution list. I
have not received any IETF mail since 9-Jan-91. Could you please
ensure that I am still in the distribution list.
-Raj Jain
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642,
508-486-7642 09-Feb-1991 0904"
cc: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU, ietf-request
Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
Subject: Re: Request to add to IETF
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 09 Feb 91 06:07:15 -0800.
<9102091407.AA06473@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 11:17:41 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Raj,
I will readd you to the IETF list. However, if I receive more error
messages like this, then I must take your name off the list again.
I've sent messages to the postmaster at DEC but the problem isn't
corrected. Your address isn't the only one, there's CALLON and a few
others.
Westine & Postel [Page 49]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
Maybe you can check into this. Here's the header from one of the
many error messages I received.
Regards, --Ann
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 17:04:41 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:
%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation
(can't decypher error code)
550 ... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(bounced)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 17:54:20 EST
From: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642
12-Feb-1991 1751"
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Request to add to IETF
The error message that you sent is unfortunately my mistake and has
nothing to do with DECWRL. One day I reset protection on all my files
and directories and didn't realize that even the system did not have
the privilege to write mail messages on my disk. I discovered it only
after several people sent phone messages to me. Thanks for adding my
name again. I will try to be careful. -Raj
************************************************************************
Westine & Postel [Page 50]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
F.36. User Unknown
a. Request to be Readded to IETF List
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 PST
From: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548
11-Feb-1991 1301"
To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Subject: add me to the ietf list (again)
Hi -
Could I be added to the ietf distribution list (again). I must have
been dropped from the list somehow. This happened to me before the
last ietf - I had to get my name reregistered then, too.
Thanks,
Paul Ciarfella ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
b. Message to User Regarding Readd and Previous Problems
To: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548 11-Feb-1991
1301"
Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: add me to the ietf list (again)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 -0800.
<9102111803.AA11116@decpa.pa.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 11:05:46 PST
From: Ann Westine
Hi Paul,
Every couple of months I have lots of error messags from several
individual mailboxes on ENET.DEC.COM. Here is a typical one. Since
I cannot reach you I am forced to delete your mailbox.
I have sent several messages to the postmaster at DEC but nothing has
been corrected. Perhaps you can look into this.
--Ann
Westine & Postel [Page 51]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com
Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id ; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST
Posted-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800
Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu
(5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:17 -0800
Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA12106; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800
From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-Id: <9012120342.AA12106@decpa.pa.dec.com>
To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: input timeout reading remote object
get_status: Connection timed out
(temporary failure)
mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "levers",
during mail delivery to .
Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:
%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed
-SYSTEM-W-DIRALLOC, allocation failure on directory file
(can't decypher error code)
550 ... User unknown
----- Recipients of this delivery -----
(queued, will retry)
(bounced)
(sent)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Westine & Postel [Page 52]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
c. Response from User Regarding Problem
Return-Path: ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com
Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST
Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
id ; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST
Posted-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
id ; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:22 -0800
Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA14420; Wed, 13
Feb 91 13:51:00 -0800
Received: from levers.enet; by decwrl.enet; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
From: "I'll die for my country but I won't kill for Texaco
13-Feb-1991 1641"
To: westine@ISI.EDU
Subject: re: add me to the ietf list (again)
Hi Ann,
Could we try another address for me? The old address has been
plagued by disk problems which might explain why the mail is not
getting delivered.
The new address to register is:
ciarfella@quiver.enet.dec.com
I will check into the problem on this end. Sorry about the tone of
my first message but this has been a never-ending problem for over 8
months.
Thank you,
Paul C
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5. Security Considerations
Security issues are not discussed in this memo.
Westine & Postel [Page 53]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991
6. Authors' Addresses
Ann Westine
USC - Information Sciences Institute
4676 Admiralty Way
Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695
Phone: 213-822-1511
EMail: Westine@ISI.EDU
Jon Postel
USC - Information Sciences Institute
4676 Admiralty Way
Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695
Phone: 213-822-1511
EMail: Postel@ISI.EDU
Westine & Postel [Page 54]
RFC, FYI, BCP